Introduction
In this Podcast, Hayden Kelly converses with Dean, a former seafarer who transformed his life through an extraordinary swimming career. Dean shares his journey from advocating for international seafarers’ rights in Sydney to conquering six of the seven major ocean channels. Through the guidance of his dedicated coach Vlad, Dean overcame numerous challenges, including acclimating to cold waters and battling kidney stones. His story is one of resilience, meticulous preparation, and the unwavering support of his training squad. This interview highlights Dean’s remarkable achievements and the inspiring lessons he’s learned along the way.
Rekindling a Passion for Swimming
Dean’s journey into swimming began around 2010 when he decided to revisit a childhood passion. Despite initial struggles, he found a supportive community at the Andrew Boy Charlton Pool in Sydney, where his commitment to swimming was reignited. This decision marked a pivotal moment in his life, transforming his daily routine and goals.
The Role of Coach Vlad
A significant factor in Dean’s success is his coach, Vlad. Combining Eastern European toughness with Western scientific approaches, Vlad provided the perfect blend of motivation and expertise. His positive, no-nonsense coaching style helped Dean progress rapidly, turning a struggling swimmer into a record-setting athlete.
Structured Training Regimen
Dean’s training routine under Vlad’s guidance was meticulously structured. Each week included stroke correction, high-intensity threshold training, sprints, and long ocean swims. This comprehensive approach ensured Dean was well-prepared for the physical and mental demands of open water swimming.
Adapting to Cold Water Conditions
One of the major challenges Dean faced was acclimating to the cold water, particularly for swims like the English Channel. Training in cold pools and open water, as well as using ice baths, helped his body adapt gradually. This aspect of his training was crucial for building the resilience needed to endure long swims in frigid temperatures.
Overcoming Health Challenges
Dean’s determination was tested when he developed kidney stones before his Northern Channel swim. Despite this setback, his confidence in his training and the support of his coach and squad enabled him to proceed. This experience highlighted the importance of mental toughness and the value of a strong support system.
Mental Resilience and Preparation
Long-distance swimming requires not only physical endurance but also significant mental resilience. Dean emphasized the importance of meticulous planning and mental preparation, which helped him stay calm and focused during challenging swims. Embracing the environment and remaining mentally strong were key strategies in his success.
The Importance of a Supportive Community
Throughout his journey, Dean benefited greatly from the support of his training squad and the broader swimming community. This sense of camaraderie and shared purpose played a vital role in his achievements, proving that even individual sports thrive on collective effort.
Inspiration for Others
Dean hopes that sharing his story will inspire others to pursue their passions, no matter the obstacles. His journey from a seafarer to a celebrated swimmer demonstrates the power of dedication, support, and a willingness to embrace challenges.
Transcript
Hayden Kelly: It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on today, Dean. We were just spot speaking then. Remarkable, remarkable fate you’ve been able to conquer and I can’t wait to to go back those early days when you got into your swimming about 10 years ago, I wouldn’t say early days. But when you you know, you went out of being a seafarer into finding a bit more of a passion now in swimming, and it’s kind of reinvigorated your life and you’ve now you now ticked off 6 of the 7 channels in the ocean. 7. I think that’s correct, and the one that’s still.
Hayden Kelly: I guess you haven’t conquered is the to so to scare state. if that’s how you pronounce it.
Dean: Well, prior to 2,030, and from 2,000 I’ve taken up a job in Sydney moved from Western Australia to hit up an organization called the International Transport Workers Federation. My job was to prosecute an in international campaign looking after the health, safety. and welfare of international seafarers. So it’s the extension of my life as a Union official and extension of my life again as a seafarer myself. So these are some of the most vulnerable people, and I needed vulnerable workers in the world, and they visit our ports so they need our protection. And we need to look in around the world and protect them all around the world. And the itf does that very, very well. So halfway through my tenure, a little bit more than halfway through there was just a junction. My personal life, my career was really there was a lot of work to be done. It was very demanding and I could have continued on unhealthily and still manage the work, but it was having an impact on him. So I made a conscious decision, to turn left instead of right, and find or try to refine the the joy of swimming as I did when I was a kid. And so I did that in Marrow, New South Wales there was a pool that had just been refurbished. I started mucking around in that a few laps here and laps there found it very, very hard to get back into. and somebody suggested that I go to Andrew boy Charlton. I don’t know, Hayden, if you’ve ever been to that pool in the city. It is exquisite. It’s a really perfectly situated and a pleasure to swim in, and I started swimming seriously. There.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, it’s a beautiful pool I’ve seen, you know. I haven’t actually been in there myself. I’ve been, you know, on the outskirts of it, but I used to swim a little bit at the Andrew boy Charlton in manly or in bell gala. So they and they both. They both run by. You know small small families and fantastic venues, and and you know what a great way to showcase Sydney Harbor with the pool sitting up there, and just just below the the Sydney Harbor bridge. And yeah, it’s a be. It’s a beautiful place. And when you when you started there you met one man which would take you a long way with your your swimming career.
Dean: Well, I start. I moved to ABC. Andrew Boy Charlton. Because it’s a swimmers pool. It had laps dedicated to lines dedicated to doing laps there was some kids jumping, doing bombings on the side. I was guilty of that as a kid as well, so I’m not dirty on them. But this pool was just for laps and training, and and serious to very serious swimmers. So I moved to that. I travel from where I was living in the inner west every day started swimming there, but very quickly I realized I needed a bit of instruction, bit of support, and somebody said, if you wanted to really be serious about swimming, then you should talked to this guy, this coach called Vlad. And I said, Okay, so I started in one day, and we just could have watched him dealing with a few other swimmers. He was loud, he was positive. and after a few sessions I thought, I’m gonna go and have a talk to him and see what he thinks. So I said, Can I book some time with you in the near future and get some strike correction. So I can swim better, he said. Sure, sure, he said. I’ve been watching you. You swim terribly. This is what you have to do, I said, Okay, well, I’ll come back to no, no jump in the water straight away. So from within 3 or 4 min of meeting him I was in the water getting struck correction, and anybody who swam with Lance highly successful squad, or just swam with him to lessons knows he’s infectious. Everything he does is positive and he’s been my coach for more than 10 years, and my very good friend as well.
Hayden Kelly: Do you think? Because Vlad. And the what I understand from Vlad is that he’s a very, very strong with these coaching, but he’s also, you know, takes really good care of of people like yourself and the athletes he works with. But do you think because of your background growing up, you know, in the unions, and as a safe error. And you you’ve cited a lot of times that throughout those careers. you know, in your upbringing. It was very intense, and the work you’re doing was very unforgiving and tiresome. Do you think that working with a coach that was, you know. Quite an intense character. you know. Help kind of get the best out of you as as a swimmer as well. And what did you learn through through working with Vlad. As you know him as a person.
Dean: Well, Vlad brings to swimming in Australia a unique blend of Eastern European toughness like he did quite a bit of time in Moscow University so he brings that hard core toughness don’t complain. I don’t wanna hear any complaints mixed with a whole lot of Western values and science, and so that blame comes together perfectly, because for me, I don’t. Wanna coach is gonna scream and yell and abuse, and we’ve all come across those now times, and that might work for some people. Some people need the back of the axe. And I certainly don’t, and I will. I wouldn’t cop it for a minute, anyway. But Vlad Strong I learned very quickly to trust his judgment. He’s got strong. Such a strong pedigree behind him, with swimmers and the stable. But Vlad now presides over, I think, is the correct word, is almost 80 English Channel swimmers, and he’s personally coached. He’s personally written programs for and seen them nurse them along the way right up to the English Channel, and that’s just one marker. Other markers are international triple crowns. And now I’m very happy to say longest Australian swim. So he has a lot of skin in the game. He’s got an enormous amount of experience. But East and West come together and give Ladd a unique blend of enthusiasm, of positivity. And yes, you can. I’ve never heard him say to someone, you can’t do this, and people that have come close to Vlad and said, Do you think I can? And as soon as I say that I know Vlad’s gonna say, of course you can. It doesn’t matter what it’s gonna be. You can do it because of his positivity, and he’ll get you there if you believe in him. Listen to what he says. He’ll get you, whatever goal you wanna do.
Hayden Kelly: So let’s have a little bit of a chat now about the I guess the periodization for long distance swimming. And understand, Vlada, had you doing squads 4 days a week, and then on the weekend you’d have a one big.
Hayden Kelly: really long duration swim. What? What did a typical kind of week of training look like in the lead up to your your English Channel, swim initially.
Dean: So he’s got quite a pro forma for the English Channel swim, and he knows what sort of distance to swimmers need, but each one is then personalized, so he’ll you know he’ll look at you. He knows what you need to do. Monday and Tuesday, for example, a stroke correction. So that’s very personalized, but he does it inside the whole squad, and just keep adding little bits and pieces to your stroke and tell you where you’re going wrong. What you can do to improve. Hey? You can go faster. You should, when you should go slower, and making you most efficient that you can be so. Monday and Tuesday struck correction, Wednesdays high intensity, and it doesn’t take any prisoners. So anybody thinking, come to squat? Probably best. Not the first day come to Wednesdays, and this just under 5 kilometers each squad session and Wednesday is an Arabic threshold and no place for the fate of hearts. So you’re in there that brings stamina that builds confidence and then Thursday is a rest day and rest days, of course, are very important. Any athlete understands the importance of rest. And I was listening just by the way, to your interview with Don Dim to Mass yesterday, and his mom is the second coach to Blad. So we have Jay with us all the time on the pool deck as well, and I started training with Jay more than 10 years ago, and now she’s the coach. So she compliments Bled’s work very well, and it’s just a wonderful sort of blending of as athletic sort of opinion. When we talk to Dom yesterday, I think about Chai’s contribution to the swim and to vast squad. And now you’re interviewing me. So I like the way that that’s all come together. And some of the things that J. That Dom says and Jay echoes are very philosophical about about athletes, and so I appreciate that. So then we got Thursdays are off Fridays Sprint day. So we do a warm up, and then about maybe 50, 50, 50 times fifties and then Saturdays along swims, and we used to go up and down the coast and pick any sort of Metropolitan Beach. But we’ve settled it, Kuji. Now. Because it suits us. It’s a very good base. It’s a wonderful place to swim, and you’ve got the Wedding Cake Island to swim around, and we’ve got a very strong swim community here. Not only floods, but others as well. So 7 days can be. Saturdays can be anywhere up to 8. Hour swings in the ocean. And you gotta get your head in the right place for those, and that’s where the long distance work is done. So you build your fitness through the week, but you get your head around ocean swimming, swimming away from the coast, swinging in all sorts of weathers, conditions, and temperatures. The work is really done on Sunday long swims, and then Sunday, resting in.
Hayden Kelly: And I guess, for the listeners and myself, the big elephant in the room. Here is the the conditions, obviously the the cold. Now the English Channel, you know, swimming. I think it was the North Channel. So from Ireland to Scotland. now blistering cold conditions, not only the water, but the the air. How did you acclimatize to that? I heard, you know, some quite funny stories about how, when you were going for the English Channel. There was periods where your daughter would be inside you know, crying and having a tantrum because she didn’t have a beanie or a scarf, and she wasn’t warm enough yet. And you were out in the backyard in an ice bath, you know, working up to towards acclimatizing yourself for those colder conditions. So talk to us a little bit about actually training for those colder conditions. I understand. I think right. Unless Sands was one of those training the beach there, or the the ocean pool. There was one of those places where you went to a lot to to train for the colder conditions due to that still water. And yeah, so tell tell us a little bit about how you’re climatised to those colder conditions.
Dean: The cold is a big element. It’s a matter of getting your head around it, embracing it, getting your body prepared for it, and then accepting it, you know you can’t go into a long swimming that it might be one degrees less than you’re prepared for. So the cut off for the English Channel, and the way to qualify is to do 6 h in under 16 degrees, and in the early days we used to go down to Melbourne Brighton baths down there, and that was nice, but it’s a long way to go. It’s not the ocean, it’s it’s it’s a little murkier than what we expect and and the great people. But we’ve got it here, as we’ve got the same conditions here, if we look for it for the English Channel. We have some really good conditions, so the temperatures in Australia come down at the same time, the English channels coming up, and so about June, July, August, they should be about the same temperature. So it’s just lifting off and then fly to to the Uk. And doing the English channel, but in order to get comfortable in 16 and probably 15, then you have to take yourself out of the comfort zone, and you can. You would know yourself in the ocean that you can tell the difference between 15 and 16. One degree in the water is an enormous drop, and you have to be prepared for that. and you gotta be prepared for the English Channel can be anywhere from 15 to 17 or 18. So you know, in a good year, in a good year for swimmers. It can be quite warm, but you gotta be prepared for the cold. So that’s about swimming in the ocean. It’s about going to Brightonless hands, because I think this is shallowest water around. You can get a really long stretch of 12 kilometers from the pavilion up to the airport, down to the river and back against the 12 kilometer stretch, which is perfect for us swimmers, and the water can be, I’d say, in the middle of winter could be 13 degrees, so it gives you everything you need for cold training. It’s on our doorstep. You don’t have to fly and travel, and you can have family and friends come and support you, and so that’ll do one, sometimes 2 cold camps. Then he gets people from other squads, and whoever else wants to come along, and and that’s coming up in June. This year I’ll be on the beach watching my friends shivering and freezing and feeling the pain and squealing, knowing that I’ve been there myself for the last 5 or 6 years, so you know, it’s time for someone else to take the man, however, but it’s serious work. But you find that your body can take it, and resilience, and your exposure to cold isn’t as bad as what you would afford, and once you do it once you do you qualify? So the English Channel rules is 6 h at under 16. Flag builds on that a bit, and wants to 8 h in under 16, and we achieve that every single time everybody who goes off to swim English Channel from Vlad has done the 8 h, and so an English Channel shouldn’t be much more than that, maybe 12 or 4 day hours. But it’s incredible how your body adapts, and very quickly, and if you do it one year. The next year is easy. It’s muscle memory. It’s all the things we know from a physiological point of view, and your body starts to accommodize and expect that. of course, the first cold water. The season is a little bit hard to cop, but you you straight back in again, and so when it comes time to do the North Channel, it was anywhere from 12 degrees to 15 degrees, and I had to prepare for that. That was when my family was kicking back a bit. My daughter was you’re right. She was sitting in the lounge room with the windows open. The fire wasn’t allowed to be lit. She had 2 beanies on, and just the scale, and groaning and grizzling for a very long time. It was a nice bit of peace and quiet, to sit at the back in the icebox as a kidney swimming pool. But you do those things, and you continue to push yourself lower and more exposure to it and relax into it, and just know that that cold isn’t gonna hurt. You. Cold is controllable. Your body will adapt you. Just gotta expose it gently, more and more, and you get there in the end.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, and I think, you know, you talk about what kind of like the concept of super compensation, and how over time as you become accustomed to. You know the physiological stresses of exercise or swimming, or whatever it may be. You know you get fitter aerobically, or you get stronger, improved, muscular endurance. But nothing would have prepared you for that. The northern Channel swim that you did. You know from Ireland, Belfast, Ireland, to Scotland, where you actually had some kidney stones there 24 h or so before you did that swim. So I know you’re talking about how it’s amazing how the body becomes more accustomed to these swims. But I’m really. And you say the body’s amazing. But I’m really interested in unpicking a little bit more about your. mental strategies that you use to maintain no calmness, and when you do these races. You know you or not races, but long and endurance swims. Ha! How do you keep yourself grounded? And and I know that being someone who’s always in the ocean loves the what the ocean brings them. I imagine it’s very much a joy for you. But how do you? How do you maintain? You know that level headed composure, especially when you have mental health conditions weighing down upon you. You know we talked talk to this a little bit more, but you know, blue blue bottle stings. How do you? How do you kind of center yourself with all of these things going on around your environment and internally.
Dean: I tried to set horses for courses. I tried to for the North Channel. I wanted to get there 3 or 4 days earlier. I wanted to sit on the beach. understand the conditions we’re in. So I wasn’t gonna give blue bottles things. But it was quite likely that we were gonna get line jellyfish, which are huge the size of a small car. The tentable goes for tens and tens of meters and they seem like buggery. But we used to blue balls here, so they’re not as bad as blue bottles. I don’t hang around for long, so we know that’s an issue. I I know it’s very unlikely there’s gonna be anything else that ocean that’s gonna cause me any sort of risk. So that’s out of the way the factor is cold, so I have to remind myself in those quiet hours before swing. But I’ve done all the cold. Nothing can be colder than midnight in 12 degrees water off La Perouse, lonely and cold and dark and rain insight. I’ve done all that stuff so just reassure myself that all of the hard works being done. This is the easy bit. This should be the bit that we enjoy, and get yourself in that mindset just beforehand, and the mindset is everything. But when you’re gonna do Molokai, for example, you know. Okay, this is a very long swing. This is 50 kilometers. If I go on a straight line there is a possibility there. There’ll be other marine risks or threats in the water. And what are you gonna do about it? But we thought we’ve spoken about it. Everything’s already done, and that’s an important place to be. Just before you swim in the North Channel. I had my head in the right place I’ll set very relaxed. And then, as you said. 20, it was 48 h before the swim. I had this horrible stabbing pain in my back, and I learned very quickly it was Kidney Stein. I couldn’t go into the hospital. The doctors I didn’t want any medication, because that’ll disqualify me out of the swim, and I write in agony for full 24 HI was absolutely in pain, couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, couldn’t do all the things when I should be in a zen like state. It was like crash rails from the freeway either side, and as I swim towards my target, as I was told, then the crash trial would go towards that veer off the crash island here and there. It doesn’t make any sense now. It didn’t make any then, but the positive thing of it was that part of that hallucination was that everybody else was in the water as well. So it wasn’t me. It was like a training screen I was leading. So it’s not like a training room, because usually I want the back. But I was leading everyone else’s in the water. So I thought, if I’m getting constantly stunned by these blue balls, everybody else is as well, so just have to deal with it. Copper suite move on. Didn’t stop every time I get stuck I had to stop pulling off. tried to get away from my fingers and out of my face. And what have you? And it was building up around my neck. So my neck was swollen from all of these stings, and it was starting to crack, and it was getting pretty painful. but still the hallucinations were going, and I couldn’t get any close to what did actually happen. Is the horse free started to empty out from high to low tide, and I was swimming into that current, that type title Shift, and so stop this swimming. And it took another 5 or 6 h by the time we come in close enough to the beach. The decision was made to finish at Palm Beach or Sydney Beach. because that storms coming still coming up, and I can see the track now laid over a storm tracker that it was the right thing to get out of the way, and when I finally made it to sure that storm came through very soon after, so the decision was made correctly. Get me out of harm’s way at first is just to get me closer. I wouldn’t have liked to try to swim into a storm, fatigued, hallucinating 16 kilometers out of sea that would have been reckless, and I don’t think that would have been a very successful swim.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, I think my first encounter with the blue bottles, or one that I remember, anyway, was during the Nippers Carnival at Umina beach, I think. and there was one I must have been in the the under tens or underwrites or so between under 8 to under tens, but one young gentlemen actually swallowed a blue bottle, and I remember hearing the absolute like screams and cries, and then the ambulance came down, and for such a small creature that I can inflict so much pain, can’t they? So what maybe explain to the listeners one, probably the worst instance you’ve had with the blue bottles and what it, what it actually felt like. I haven’t actually been stung, Bob want one. But for those listeners that have, they could potentially relate. But what does it actually feel like.
Dean: It feels like a white hot lash across your body, and it’s so specific. So you know exactly where it is straight away. and you can peel it off. It’s like it can be like a fishing line. It can be quite stiff, but this sting is all the way down, and they can be a meter or 2 meters long. They wrap around your fingers, and they don’t come off easily, say, and not. I had to hold it up to the starlight to try to find out where they were, and try to peel off my fingers, face around you, talks because I slide down your body and stop wherever they bloody. Well, once, and they just hung around the the line and also I’m worried because, as I said before, they. Their objective is to disable you so that. But you know you, I wouldn’t feed on a human but small fish, so there’s 3 organisms in one and one will steam, one will disable, and one will it will dissolve the food and eat it at whatever the fish is. So these things are all over me. I’m getting used to them, but I can. I just couldn’t help, but I had to scream out and yell and square every single one of them that hit me. Well, I realized that they were dispersed all the way down the coast from Newcastle all the way to Sydney, so my fear of coming into a great big collection of them was was not well suited. but they get caught up in funnels. When you get closer to the harbor and sometimes on the beach in Sydney. You can see great tracks of brilliant blue on the beach. And you know you dodge them. But the worst one was coming in. I thought I was. I was gonna put up with them all. I’ll still probably not a kilometer out, and once done me across the face. That was alright, because, like you could you know whether I can. You peel them off your face? And Vlad had worked out that if you tied a chuck swipe to a rope, and you could throw it to me, and I could use the chuck swipe to to rub it off to. But eventually I was rubbing them back onto me, so that was reaching its maximum potential. But this one across my face, and it swung its body is a small one into my nose right up into my nose, and my nose to be burnt so badly from 31 h of salt water burn, and it burns your throat, it burns your nose, it burns everything else, it rubs on your skin and burns. So salt is very abrasive. and this blue bottle, body up, my nostril just burnt like hell. So the one across tangible across my face coming up quite easy, and it wouldn’t come out of my nose. Eventually what I did my Gobble started to well up with tears of pain, because it was so excruciating.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, I think my first encounter with the blue bottles, or one that I remember, anyway, was during the Nippers Carnival at Umina beach, I think. and there was one I must have been in the the under tens or underwrites or so between under 8 to under tens, but one young gentlemen actually swallowed a blue bottle, and I remember hearing the absolute like screams and cries, and then the ambulance came down, and for such a small creature that I can inflict so much pain, can’t they? So what maybe explain to the listeners one, probably the worst instance you’ve had with the blue bottles and what it, what it actually felt like. I haven’t actually been stung, Bob want one. But for those listeners that have, they could potentially relate. But what does it actually feel like.
Dean: The other thing I didn’t mention before, but I did have one of the kayakers day, and it was nighttime. I can’t remember. It was early night, whatever, so lost that perspective. Dan was kayaking just beside me, and within the region the sharks shield and I sort of drifted off a little bit, and I just thought it’s surely it’s time for a feed, so I said, how long before a feed, Dan? He said. 5 min. So I kept swinging for more than 5 min, and I put my head up again. Come on, they said. 5 more minutes. So this is getting ridiculous. It shouldn’t be playing games, so I’ll swim off for another 10 or 15 min, and I said to him later, like days later, I said, Dan, that you doubled up there for some reason I need a feed when I need a feed. I don’t need to put it off for 15 min, he said. Well, there was a sharp right beside you. I could see the feed through. The nighttime was making the the viola Vanessa, so I thought it best not to stop right next to the sharp feet, I said, Well, that’s good thinking, thank you. And that was the only experience. So I didn’t see he did but it wasn’t to sensationalize it. It’s just a funny story. The sound is sharp. We actually saw, or he saw in the whole trip.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, and I would. I drive up to Newcastle University a handful of times a week. So drive for my partner’s place in Olympic Park. If you take away the kind of the trip you know through the this, like the city and that but like once you’re on the Pacific Highway. It’s 2 h drive our our 40 min drive, and since I’ve been driving up there I’ve been having a few thoughts about. Oh, like Dean. You know the swim he did, and conscious of like how far I’m driving, going 110 K’s an hour, for you know, an hour, 40 min like it’s a big journey, and for for you to swim that in 31 h is incredible. Given the the circumstances and everything you had to go through. You spoke briefly there about Des and Susie just before, and they want well, des was unable to complete the swim in the 1980 S. And then Suzy was unable to do it in the 90 s. Mainly because of environmental conditions. But what made you confident you were able to achieve that swim.
Dean: The confidence comes from my squad. And Vlad, so it’s called a solo sport, but it’s far from solo. You don’t train on your own. There was a part of the training that I did not talk about that. But the squad it’s everybody in the pool in the morning, knowing and wishing you best training with you. And even in the oceans on the Saturday they come training. Vlad thought it was a good idea to have what he called a swim camp for me just with me between Christmas and New Year and the swim camp was doing 100 kilometers over that week, but focused on 85 kilometers 4 days, and swimming in the morning and night, morning and night, morning at night, and that was hard. I call it Hell Week, but that gave me so much confidence after I finished that most of us on my own. Some friends come at different stage to join in, but of course it was my responsibility. Terrible weather, rough lightning storms. It was just a bad time in Sydney for that, but it was my job, so I just switched my mind into it, and a while went. I did. I can’t remember. The distance is 15 kilometers in the morning. Come home, figs, 10 kilometers in the afternoon back for 15 kilometers in the morning, and you just keep on going like that, and that builds service strengths stamina. But confidence, and you hit the nail on the head. It’s all about having the confidence to that swim so that your first stroke you’re not worrying, am I gonna finish? You’re convinced you’re gonna finish because you’ve done all the hard work. But, Susie, and there’s a great inspiration to me. I have the very great pleasure of swimming now, and training with Christian Ransford and Christian next month is going to be the first third generation swimmer to do the English Channel. So that’s something to look out for and they’re a great family. They’re all inspirational swimmers, and this is just a showman, isn’t he? If you read anything, if you read his book. Did you see any of those videos that he made the newspaper reports? He is the ultimate showman and somebody who inspired me enormously. And I’ve got different parallels. I feel like like I knew there’s a bit, but of course I I didn’t.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, it’s it’s quite funny how you’d hear someone say, I could do that run in my sleep or like you, you legitimately were keeping, maintaining a stroke rate about 60 60 per minute, whilst you were asleep for 45 min. Do you have any any means of explaining that like, is that.
Dean: Well, when I’m swimming, and I expect any long distance swim affiliates as well. Sometimes your head gets into a nice, fuzzy sort of a design is kind of like the twilight just before you fall asleep. You just if you’re in good conditions. You’re not battling big, heavy sublies or something, and you. Your body’s rocking as it should as you’re rolling and turning with each stroke and you just missing to your bubbles if you’re with a paddler, kayaker, a support team. You can give yourself over. You can let yourself fall asleep into that space. I don’t know why, but I think it’s worth a bit more, studying, a bit more questioning from academics. How you can continue to keep that same pace up same stroke rate of 64. That’s my ideal. 64 strikes a minute. Even when your brain is essentially switched off. And Vlad was very surprised and delighted that you swim. I was almost unconscious, but still keeping the stroke right up. So it’s a very positive thing to do. I don’t think there was any added risk to doing that but being able to access. That is a huge thing. and how far can you go if you can have sleeps every now and then? It’s not like. keeping awake with outside influences for 2 days in a row, because that’s really hard. But if you can just have these little breaks every now and then, I I think you’re in a very good position.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, it’d be interesting to see kind of what sleep. I guess, your sleep cycle looks like, and how deep or light that sleep is. And you know the physiological benefits. It provides you in terms of your your performance as well. So if there’s any researchers, neuro neurologists out there, or anyone that wants to get. Happy to help. But you know, Wendy’s brain.
Dean: Some I spoke to some interesting people like I spoke to people out of the military how they deal fatigue. I spoke to Phil Rush. Who’s a wonderful New Zealand swimmer, triple English Channel crossing, you know. He’s fast, furious, broken all sorts, and he is Mr. Swimming in New Zealand. we all agree that you can’t build up a bank of sleep. Of course you shouldn’t start tired or fatigued, but you can’t build up a bank of sleep and then spend that later on the swim. But you can go in rested. You can go in prepared, and there’s a whole lot of different measures you can take to keep everybody as calm and cool around you, so there’s no surprises, and of course nobody recommends you get stunted by jellyfish every 20 min, because that does interrupt every one of your cycles. So I guess what I’m saying. The only way I’m gonna find out my true limit is by having perfect conditions the way down the best I could possibly get being able to fall into that micro sleep mode which Newcastle was never able to, and I was kind of counting on that, because I was budgeting for a 40 h swim, and I would have found it really hard to push through to 40, because I hadn’t had a sleep all that time my mind hadn’t had a chance to switch off even, for if it was for a short time, so my answer is that already know where that is. once I have a good run into everything. I don’t have to put up with jellyfish things. I can employ those little mechanisms that I’ve developed to myself. I can have time before a swim, to put my head in the right place, and consider what this swim might throw up to me, and what other challenges I might have to put up with.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, it’s it’s quite funny how you’d hear someone say, I could do that run in my sleep or like you, you legitimately were keeping, maintaining a stroke rate about 60 60 per minute, whilst you were asleep for 45 min. Do you have any any means of explaining that like, is that.
Dean: Well, when I’m swimming, and I expect any long distance swim affiliates as well. Sometimes your head gets into a nice, fuzzy sort of a design is kind of like the twilight just before you fall asleep. You just if you’re in good condition. You’re not battling big, heavy supplies or something, and you. Your body’s rocking as it should as you’re rolling and turning with each stroke and you just missing to your bubbles if you’re with a paddler, kayaker, a support team. You can give yourself over. You can let yourself fall asleep into that space. I don’t know why, but I think it’s worth a bit more, studying, a bit more questioning from academics. How you can continue to keep that same pace up same stroke rate of 64. That’s my ideal. 64 strikes a minute. Even when your brain is essentially switched off. And Vlad was very surprised and delighted that you swim. I was almost unconscious, but still keeping the stroke right up. So it’s a very positive thing to do. I don’t think there was any added risk to doing that but being able to access. That is a huge thing. and how far can you go if you can have sleeps every now and then? It’s not like. keeping awake with outside influences for 2 days in a row, because that’s really hard. But if you can just have these little breaks every now and then, I I think you’re in a very good position.
Hayden Kelly: Yeah, it’d be interesting to see kind of what sleep. I guess, your sleep cycle looks like, and how deep or light that sleep is. And you know the physiological benefits. It provides you in terms of your your performance as well. So if there’s any researchers, neuro neurologists out there, or anyone that wants to get. Wendy’s brain.
Here is the cleaned up transcript:
Dean: Some interesting people I spoke to about fatigue include those from the military and Phil Rush, a wonderful New Zealand swimmer who has completed three English Channel crossings. He holds numerous records and is considered Mr. Swimming in New Zealand.
Dean: We all agree you can’t build up a bank of sleep. Of course, you shouldn’t start tired or fatigued, but you can’t save up sleep to spend later. However, you can go in rested and prepared, and there are ways to keep everyone calm around you so there are no surprises. Of course, nobody recommends getting stung by jellyfish every 20 minutes as that interrupts your cycles.
Hayden Kelly: There is research around sleeping and napping amongst elite athletes. A good night’s sleep is beneficial, but short duration naps benefit performance more, while longer sleep inhibits it. It would be interesting to discuss microsleeps with Shauna Holson from Australian Catholic University, who researches athletes and sleep performance.
Hayden Kelly: Do you have a fear of sharks or marine creatures? How did small successes build your confidence for being in an environment with so many inhabitants?
Dean: I don’t have an irrational fear of sharks. There is a difference between respecting what’s in the ocean and irrational fear generated by media, gossip, and politics. I live on Kuchi Beach where we have drumlines that catch and kill anything near the coast, responding to irrational fear and political responses. They’re only 500 meters offshore where we swim, and the ancient technology of shark nets kills turtles and other animals for tourists’ protection. It’s ridiculous and I hope it changes.
Dean: I’ve built respect but no fear. We see them from time to time—they’re beautiful, necessary animals. I’ve had the privilege of swimming with a 14-foot oceanic whitetip for 5 hours in Monaco. It was just curious, following closely. When I stopped to feed, it drifted aside sunning. Everyone saw how big it was but I wasn’t worried. Initially I was wary but quickly at ease, picking up no danger. That experience set me up for night swims without worry.
Hayden Kelly: And I guess that’s what I’m saying about small wins building confidence if you had stresses being in the ocean with other wildlife. But can you tell us about that experience with the oceanic whitetip? It’s not a small shark at 14 feet.
Dean: It was just beneath me in the clearing water at dawn. I said to the kayaker next to me “Can you see that?” He said he surely could—it was the same size as his kayak. The pilot boat came screaming in but I said I was fine and didn’t want to pull the swim. It just hung around underneath me. When I stopped to feed, it drifted aside sunning. Everyone could see it. I swam closer to the shark shield to feel more confident with something that could lessen risk from an unknown predator.
Hayden Kelly: The Newcastle to Sydney swim you completed in 31 hours—an incredible achievement given the circumstances. You left Nobbys Beach with a big support crew including your son rubbing grease on you. It was a long journey with a southerly storm halfway through. At one point you were getting stung a lot by blue bottles and started hallucinating—can you talk us through that challenging part of the swim?
Dean: We knew a front was coming so aimed for a 40-hour weather window. It was rougher than I’d have liked but we took the window available. I knew it would be tough at night. Still, plenty of stings but went in expecting a tough time. The front came earlier than expected and I was 16km offshore, fatigued with the stings. They moved me closer for safety when the front arrived. The stings were gathering around my neck and it was painful. Hallucinations started from fatigue and stings—I couldn’t see landmarks though I knew they were there. It was frustrating and I just had to keep going.
Hayden Kelly: At one point you were 16km offshore in a southerly storm coming—at that point were you worried at all?
Dean: Not really. We had the weather window aimed for and the crew knew what they were doing. Rationally when you’re out there, it’s a different perspective than looking at the ocean. At midnight in the deep blue water with one kayaker, it was incredibly humbling but comfortable. You have to be at peace with your environment and embrace what comes, being prepared to adapt.
Hayden Kelly: You’ve spoken about your wife, family and friends’ support—I understand your wife had a tough time with seasickness, vomiting and anxiety. How much of a role did they play in your journey?
Dean: They’ve always been fantastically supportive. My wife Colleen is tough—she vomited through the Ocean 7 swims but was always there without complaint, hugely supportive. I couldn’t have done it without her. She suffers alongside me and my daughter through the cold—the toughest one is my daughter. This one was supposed to go ahead in 2022 but around then she was struck with aggressive cancer and stared it down with incredible strength. That strength inspires me as well.
Hayden Kelly: At one point you were 16km offshore in the southerly storm approaching—what made you confident you could achieve this swim?
Dean: The confidence comes from my squad and coach Vlad. It’s not a solo sport—you don’t train alone. The squad is there wishing you their best, training with you, even training on Saturdays in the ocean. Vlad organized a “swim camp” for me between Christmas and New Year doing 100km over the week, with 85km in four days—morning and night sessions. That was hard but gave me so much confidence. I hit the swim knowing I could finish because I’d done the work.
Hayden Kelly: You touched on nutrition—what did you consume on this long journey given the challenges of feeding while submerged?
Dean: For a 12-hour swim I can get away with sugars like maltodextrin mixed with cordial, but after 12 hours your muscles need protein. We decided on maltodextrin, rice, and it should have been savory—I’m still paying for choosing sweet! I took about 30g per hour with water. On this swim I needed to change—after 12 hours I took protein with the sugars. It was warmed to my core temperature so it didn’t shock on entry. Sometimes I had bread or pasta too for stronger flavors. Fresh water helped delay salt burns on my mouth.
Hayden Kelly: You left Nobbys Beach with a big support crew and your son rubbing grease on you. It was a long journey through the night, with the southerly storm halfway. At one point you were getting stung a lot by blue bottles and started hallucinating—can you talk us through that challenging part of the swim?
Dean: We knew a front was coming so aimed for a 40-hour window, though conditions weren’t perfect. I knew night would be tough with plenty of stings but went in expecting difficulty. The front arrived earlier, fatigued with stings piling up around my neck causing pain. Hallucinations started—I couldn’t see landmarks I knew were there, which was frustrating. I just had to keep going through it all. Rationally when swimming it’s different than looking at the ocean—you have to embrace your environment. The crew knew the plan and got me safely through it.
Hayden Kelly: You’ve spoken about your family’s support—I understand your wife had a tough time with seasickness on your swims. How much of a role did they play in supporting this Newcastle to Sydney journey?
Dean: They’ve always been fantastically supportive. My wife Colleen suffers from seasickness but was always there without complaint, hugely supportive. I couldn’t have done it without her—she suffers alongside me through the cold. This swim was supposed to go ahead in 2022 but around then my daughter was struck with aggressive cancer and stared it down with incredible strength, inspiring me as well. For this swim, my son rubbed grease on me at the start and my whole family was there at the end—I couldn’t have achieved it without them.
Hayden Kelly: You left with a big crew and support—at what point did you start to feel confident you could achieve this first-ever swim?
Dean: The confidence comes from my coach Vlad and our squad. It’s not a solo sport—you don’t train alone. They were all there wishing me their best and training alongside me. Vlad organized an intense “swim camp” for me over the Christmas break doing 100km including 85km over four days of back-to-back sessions. That was incredibly hard but gave me so much confidence in my ability knowing I’d done the work. By the start of the swim, I was convinced I could finish.
Hayden Kelly: You’ve spoken about your family’s support. I understand your wife had a tough time with seasickness on your swims. How much of a role did they play in supporting this Newcastle to Sydney journey specifically?
Dean: They’ve always been hugely supportive. My wife Colleen suffers from seasickness but was always there without complaint. For this swim, my son rubbed grease on me at the start and my whole family was there at the end—I couldn’t have achieved it without them. The crew did an amazing job too, working tirelessly for 12 hours at a time in rough conditions to ensure I had everything I needed. It was a real team effort and I’m grateful for everyone’s support.
Hayden Kelly: You’ve given a fascinating account of your incredible 31-hour swim. Thank you for taking the time to share your story—it will surely inspire many. Where do you see long-distance swimming heading in the future, and what are your goals?
Dean: I think we’ve only begun to tap into long-distance swimming’s potential in Australia. There are so many beautiful coastlines begging to be explored. Swims like Palm Beach to Shelly Beach are pioneering new routes. I want to encourage more Australian-focused events and records rather than everyone only chasing English Channel crossings. For me personally, I aim to push my limits even farther and see where my body can take me with the right preparation and team. Most of all I hope to support others in achieving their open water dreams too.
Hayden Kelly: Thank you for sharing your story today. Your achievements are truly remarkable and will no doubt continue to inspire. It’s been a pleasure learning about your swims—I wish you all the best for future adventures. Please keep me posted on any upcoming events!
Dean: Thank you, it’s been great discussing my experiences. I’m glad we captured some of it for future reference. I appreciate you giving me a platform to share. I hope it does inspire others to get out there and challenge themselves. I’ll definitely keep you in the loop on any upcoming swims.
Hayden Kelly: It was a pleasure chatting with you today, Dean. Your achievements are astonishing. You’re an amazing human. I can’t wait to see what you achieve in the coming years.
Dean: I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you for documenting these experiences – it helps me to reflect on them too. Please send me a link to the final episode once it’s ready. I look forward to following your story and Australian swimming’s future. If there’s anything upcoming, be sure to let me know.
Hayden Kelly: I’ll be sure to keep you updated. Thanks again for your time. It was an honor chatting with you. Please stay in touch – I’d love to meet up next time I’m down your way. All the best!
Dean: Thank you Hayden, I appreciate you sharing my story. All the best to you too.
Hayden Kelly: Thanks to everyone listening. Please check out the podcast page for more details on upcoming episodes. Dean, feel free to share any events or articles – I’d be happy to promote them. Until next time!
Dean: Thank you, it was a pleasure.
Conclusion
Dean’s transformation into a successful swimmer is a testament to the power of resilience, meticulous preparation, and unwavering support. His story, highlighted in this interview, offers valuable insights into overcoming challenges and achieving greatness through passion and determination.
